Am I dreaming

[FOGGY]

The world has gone mad,
Brexit
Virus
And now millions practicing herd immunity and condoning the actions of a man they portray as on BBC and SKY a gentle giant

Let’s just put that into perspective

4 prison sentences the later 4 years for aggravated burglary ie impersonating a official to gain entry, producing a handgun, holding it to a pregnant woman’s stomach and threatening to shoot her and her unborn baby unless she hands over all her money and valuables. Well if that’s a gentle giant I’d hate to meet a nasty one.

[JessicaH]

I totally agree FOGGY. 
Mr. Floyd wasn’t a saint and it is dishonest of the media to paint him as such.
However no-one deserves to be pinned down by the neck for 1 minute, let alone 9, and watching the footage it seemed to me the perpetrator was enjoying every second.

The people of this world appear to be in an emotional crisis at the moment.
Seems only way out, for the moronic few, is to cause as much upheaval as they can by blindly jumping on any bandwagon available.
Treating everyone with respect is what is needed not protest marches which morph into violent demonstrations.

Unfortunately we are missing any charismatic leaders.

[FOGGY]

Ditto all that, apparently the cop and Floyd bounced nightclubs together previously, the cop said he new he couldn’t give Floyd a inch as he would’ve be uncontrollable and possibly shot in any case.

[frankie]

Initially the cop said he did not know Floyd until it was pointed out to him that he did as he was his supervisor when they were bouncers.

[Drax]

Hey, come on! OK it might be another unfortunate event in the history of U.S. cops and robbers but at least protesters across the States had a chance to fill their car boots with booze, the latest Nike trainers, iPhones and Pads, quad core computers and the latest 82" Smart 8K HDR QLED TV's

The United States - land of the free!

[FOGGY]

“Blue lives matter” smurfs inc:

[JessicaH]

ALL lives matter.
Up until WW1 most ordinary people, skin colour immaterial, were slaves/ servants, call it what you will, but most were treated abominably by the “upper class” and employers.
Only have to read Dickens to understand what life was like for the majority.
Children from 7 working in mines or mills.
An endless list of wrongs of life in Georgian and Victorian Britain.
But that was then and the clock cannot be turned back.
Now we are supposed to be an educated and tolerant society. NOT!!
So when I read
Protesters in Bristol have now torn down a controversial statue to 17th century slave trader Edward Colston.
I am disgusted and hope ALL involved get heavily fined.

And as for those who have used what happened in USA as an excuse to damage and steal ....Words escape me.

Rant over 🤬

[frankie]

Sadly the behaviour of a minority, and it was a only a minority, is now taking the lead in any discussion today.  There were thousands across the UK and other parts of the World who marched peacefully but they are not getting the news coverage.  The minority were simply there to cause trouble and these are the people who turn up to any march, no matter the cause in order to have a fight, usually with police but anyone will do and to commit vandalism.  I know, I have experienced it during the poll tax riots in London where there were people with knives and other weapons, plus spray cans of paint, not a requirement for a peaceful protester.  Articles which are the tools of their Trade as they are professionals and they will be the ones who will be satisfied with a job well done after the weekend. 
 

[PAULT]

JessicaH So it is ok to accept a statue to a racist slave trader who exploited people and left lives in complete misery.
Do you not understand what happened in Africa and why it is wrong that we still put on pedestals statues of the people who got very rich on this terrible trade.
Remember the slave trade did not stop because of great british politicos but because there were no more PEOPLE in Africa, and if you do not believe me  do your research and you will see why Africa is so poor.
Maybe people who support the continued use of these symbols  agree with what happened in the past and think it is acceptable now. It was not acceptable then but we did not have the internet then.
If you think it is correct to stop racism  then there is no option but to purge society of all things that glorify the unacceptable actions of certain individuals in the past.
As others have said not only were people of other countries exploited but that went on in Britain and should also be shown that there are people who are still living on the money that was from extortion of people.
Times are changing so let us all move forward.

[JessicaH]

PAULT,  am confused how anyone could read that I accept slave culture because I don’t agree with provocateurs taking over peaceful protests.

[PAULT]

Sorry Jessica but you should read your post and see how they come across.
You post both sides of the coin.
The UK and the world stopped trading in people but by allowing statues etc to remain surely you are condoning the actions of these people in the past.
We find the actions of these people abhorrent but not the people theirselves, why.
Many practices that happened in the past are now considered wrong as you say children down mines,  Pedophilia, Rape etc is it correct to glorify and to continue to do so, the people who gained from these practices.
The likes of the Duke of Westminster who inherited his wealth from people who carried out many of these actions.
The Royals who benefited from the slave trade and condoned pedophilia by still portraying their forefathers as the leaders of society when it is known that it was common among their "CLASS".
I agree that all lives matter but it was pointed out to me that is not the case for many who are not white and that is wrong.
The present movement is only a reflection of the establishments refusal to really act.
The statue in Bristol is a good example, arguing for 15+ years over what to do with this statue means that some people do not want change and do not recognise what these statues represent for people who were hurt. Direct action at least makes the establishment take notice and unless it continues this issue will fade into the background as has Grenfell.
In deed if you look at Grenfell much of the goods donated at the time are still languishing in warehouses and very little cash has been distributed, 6 people at the last count. But that is what the British are good at with there establishment committees.

[JessicaH]

PAULT, none of us can changed the past.
All countries have a barbaric history and many of the world populace,  those you name and even we, mere mortals of all colours and creeds, have benefitted in some guise or another.

It is HOW we treat people TODAY that matters. Because that we can do something about.

Desire change then do it democratically. Not by pre arming oneself with implements to cause damage or destroy.
IMO that acknowledges violence rules. Therefore they show themselves to be no better than those on plinths.

Wonder how many vandals knowingly bought, and will still buy, cheap foreign goods from the known sources.
Although our education is far superior to that of our forefathers it doesn’t seem to stop people buying goods manufactured by children and the slaves of today who work in disgusting sweat shop conditions.

[FOGGY]

The statue had to come down, the attitude of Bristol council (we’re not being told what to do by the plebs) ok it’s not Iraq which bore a similarity but if those so called “mobsters” hadn’t done it it would still be there and doubt it would ever go.
Also, yes there are many little Henry’s, land owners, stately’s living the high life driving Bentleys on the backs of slavery to this day in places you wouldn’t believe I’m sure.

[PAULT]

The following is an excellent read
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1269907745236348929.html

This is why people who were not transported into slavery came to Europe for life etc and are even today treated like second rate citizens.
And yes there is institutionalised racism n the UK, but as so many people do not understand racism it will continue so as I said if knocking over a few statues blacking out a few place names makes things change then bring it on.
I white and because I live outside the UK even I have been subjected to what I would call racist comments from people who are truly stupid.
Part of the reason that the slave trade died out eg the purchase and sale of PEOPLE just like you and me was because there were no people in Africa.
The continent was plundered from east and west an when the slavers met in the middle it became unprofitable.
This fits in with what was said in the article when the movement started to compensate the evil people who ran the trade.
The result of the slave trade was that the African continent was left to rot in desolation, this can be seen by the population figures. By as late as the 90s over 70% of the population were under 30 and life expectancy is now only to the age of 50.
No wonder people fled to find a life and income from other parts of the world.
The population of Africa was 177 million in 1950, and it grew 7.6 times to more than 1.341 billion in 2020.[3]
Africa is bigger than China, India, the contiguous U.S. and most of Europe—combined!
When you consider that Africa is the size of 5 continents the population even in 1950 was miniscule
So please have some sympathy with people from Africa and certainly do not deride efforts to bring to an end the glorification of the people who inflicted such injustice on millions of people
Period Life expectancy in Years
1950–1955 37.46
1955–1960 39.95
1960–1965 42.32
1965–1970 44.42
1970–1975 46.51
1975–1980 48.66
1980–1985 50.45
1985–1990 51.72
1990–1995 51.71
1995–2000 52.33
2000–2005 53.67
2005–2010 56.97
2010–2015 60.23

[olly]

 Wonder how long before the statue of Rocky Bilbao gets knocked down?
After all he beat up Three black men AND a Communist.